MyDD :: Choosing a VP

Choosing a VP

by TaiChiMaster, Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:52:37 AM EST

The question is who will be Obama's VP?

1) Don't hold your breath, the outcome is already written. Obama has no choice but to ask Hillary to be his VP. Now, no need to be offended, this is the nature of politics, his victory was simply not large enough to grant him freedom of choice, he has to give something big to Hillary's supporters, supporters that keep voting for her against all odds to the bitter end. I suspect that the VP slot is the only thing big enough. Wether the people who vote for Hillary are "true" democrats is beside the point, that's not a GE argument. So he will ask and, I suspect, pray to god she says no.

2) Now, what about Hillary's side of the equation? If Obama loses, she will be blamed, the people who don't believe that don't watch tv. In the end, the only way she would not be is if he doesn't ask her. On the other end, if she is asked and says no, the blame is on her, guaranteed. Let me quote Chris Mettews responding to the question "Does Hillary want to be the VP?" his response was "if she wants him to win, yes".

So there you have it:
1) Obama needs to ask her but doesn't want her to accept.
2) Hillary doesn't want to be asked, but has to accept if she is.

Tags: Obama Hillary VP (all tags)

Permalink :: 62 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: Choosing a VP (none / 0)

Don't hold your breath, the outcome is already written. Obama has no choice but to ask Hillary to be his VP.

Sure he does. He has a lot of choice. He's the winner of the primary. He gets to choose whoever he wants as his running mate.

And in all honesty, I doubt it's going to be Sen. Clinton.

Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.

by mistersite on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:56:59 AM EST

Actually the Convention Chooses (none / 0)

Obama doesn't exactly have a broad mandate from the Party. Hillary is in a position to make or break him.

by hypopg on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:48:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Choosing a VP (none / 0)

the ONLY way he gets my vote is if hillary is on the ticket....

it won't be her fault if he loses - she can simply say "i told you so"....she can't help that he's such a flawed, weak candidate....

by nikkid on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:02:27 AM EST

Re: Choosing a VP (none / 0)

A flawed, weak candidate....

Who beat her....

Despite her having an enormous lead from the beginning in fundraising, political machinery, and the Clinton brand name recognition nationally.

Now if you don't vote for Obama because of some bitterness that your candidate was beaten, then that is your choice.

But if you do that, you're enabling the deaths of more Americans in Iraq and making sure that everything you think Hillary stands for doesn't happen for another 4-8 years.

by Yalin on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 02:00:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Choosing a VP (none / 0)

I think this is massively oversimplifying the situation. Yes he is obligated to consider her strongly for the position but he is in no means obliged to hand it to her. It might not be in the best interests of the party to have these two combatants (lets call them that because that is what they have been to each other for a year and a half now) trying to squeeze onto the same ticket.

by wasder on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:03:35 AM EST

Re: Choosing a VP (none / 0)

Point #1, I guarantee will happen. Not because anyone is "forcing" him, but because Obama knows what's good for Obama.

Point #2, I consider very likely.

by TaiChiMaster on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:06:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Choosing a VP (none / 0)

Actually, Obama will only offer HRC the VP slot if he's already confirmed she will accept. If he offers and she refuses they will both be in impossible situations politically.

He would be weakened by her spurning his offer, because as the chosen leader of 49% of the party, her refusal would be interpreted as a damaging vote of no confidence. There's no way for her to refuse and continue to be an advocate for a unified party behind his candidacy.

She would be weakened, as the label of spoiler would be hung on her by many of her colleagues and many in the party.

There will be no formal and public offer unless acceptance has already been conveyed privately. Any leaks will only compromise the possibility. Publicly compromising the possibility could also harm his candidacy.

The future is unwritten

by Strummerson on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:18:35 AM EST

Re: Choosing a VP (none / 0)

I agree the best outcome for the party is if he offers and she accepts.

However, If he offers and she refuses, I believe he could still win. But I agree, it's a moots point, she can't refuse, it would be too damaging for her.

by TaiChiMaster on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:23:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Choosing a VP (none / 0)

I'm actually not convinced that HRC as VP would be the best scenario for his administration, her career, or their electoral prospects. Don;t get me wrong, I'd be pleased to advocate for that ticket, but it has many deficits and liabilities as well. Nonetheless, he only offers if she is guaranteed to accept.

Personally, I think Reid should step aside and she should be announced as incoming majority leader (unless she wants a cabinet post, and I'd enthusiastically offer her her pick) and she should publicly preempt any discussion by expressing this as her preference along with her rationale for that preference. He's off the hook and she's positioned to be a major player and no one looks weak or like their choices express lack of support for one another. That, I think, would be the optimal situation.

The future is unwritten

by Strummerson on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:28:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Reid is going nowhere (none / 0)

by emmasaint on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:53:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Reid is going nowhere (none / 0)

I agree that is likely. I was proposing what the best case scenario would be in my eyes. Of course, if he was offered either a cabinet level post or a sexy ambassadorship...but those would be conditional on a strong dem candidate from Nevada to take his seat. Nonetheless, I proposing an ideal hypothetical with regard to the resolution of Obama and Clinton's contest. And though I agree with the likelihood of Reid's entrenchment, much stranger things have happened.

The future is unwritten

by Strummerson on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:03:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The President Doesn't Pick the Senate Leadership (none / 0)

I don't think Hillary wants a "sexy" ambassador posting or a low level cabinet post. Probably only Secretary of State would be appealing to her. I doubt however that she wants to serve at the pleasure of the president. I think the only move he can make is offer her the post of VP. Barring that he will be looking at a very steep climb to Pennsylvania Avenue.

by hypopg on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:07:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The President Doesn't Pick the Senate Leadersh (none / 0)

Sexy ambassadorship was a hypothetical scenario for Reid. Hence I mentioned that this would have to be contingent on a strong dem candidate from Nevada to replace him. And of course the pres. doesn't pick the majority leader. But the party does. And it's in the interest of the party to create the optimal situation for these two leaders to be able to work together going forward, with regard to the campaign and governance. And I have emphasized that this is not a prediction. This would in some senses function as an ideal resolution, not a likely one.

1. Tab Reid for ambassadorship or cabinet post (contingent on plausible Nevada successor)

2. Senate dems court HRC for Reid's replacement as majority leader, giving her a power base and healing wounds between them. Returning to lead in the senate in aformal role is quite different from returning to the back benches or a committee chairpersonship.

3. HRC announces her intention to contend for the post of majority leader as her preference because of x, y, and z. Looks forward to working with Obama's administration.

I don't think this will happen. I do think it would be the best of all possible worlds. We're all working with hypotheticals here, not tangible probabilities. Too many things in flux. That's the fun of it. Hence I expressed what I see as the optimal end to the current contest with regard to the assets and strengths and relationships of those involved.

The future is unwritten

by Strummerson on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:15:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary asked it already (none / 0)

Obama said no. Hillary won't be Obama's VP.

by Fairy Tale on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:24:28 AM EST

Re: Choosing a VP (none / 0)

The VP choice should be made well after the aftermath of the primary, when internal polling can more clearly judge how large the party-jumping of her supporters really is. You cannot get a clear picture of that until at least 2 weeks after she concedes.

If the party-jumping is still an issue, he picks her. If it isn't a huge issue, then he goes with someone more ideologically aligned with himself, or someone who helps him in a specific geographic region.

John McCain wants to make abortion illegal

by Lost Thought on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:25:48 AM EST

Re: Choosing a VP (none / 0)

Come on, no need for that, the very fact that she keeps winning primaries this late in the game should be all the proof you need.

by TaiChiMaster on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:28:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Choosing a VP (none / 0)

Proof of what? Popularity has nothing to do with the VP pick. The only thing Clinton adds to the ticket are the people who claim they would never vote for Obama unless she is on the ticket. She doesn't inherently bring any states, except perhaps AK, but that is shaky, and they disagree on many policy issues. A VP needs to bring something, either a constituency, a state, or a reinforcement of ideology. If Clinton's contribution to the ticket is less than other candidates, then she will not be picked. You don't get VP just for coming in second, but her name is on the list of candidates.

John McCain wants to make abortion illegal

by Lost Thought on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:32:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Choosing a VP (none / 0)

wishfull thinking.

by TaiChiMaster on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:34:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Choosing a VP (none / 0)

I am truly confused as to what your objection to my points is.

John McCain wants to make abortion illegal

by Lost Thought on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:42:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You have this list? (none / 0)

Pompous much?

by emmasaint on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:54:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

ABC (none / 0)

Anybody But Clinton.

Clinton supporters will get on the Obama bandwagon because it is the right thing to do they don't need to be bribed with the VP slot for their candidate.

Also, Clinton brings way too much baggage to the VP slot and she isn't a team player. Obama would be crazy to pick her.

Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius

by Blue Neponset on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:26:32 AM EST

Re: ABC (none / 0)

ABC? Anybody but clinton? McCain then.

I allways suspected that a legion of Obama supporters were Clinton haters from the right.

by TaiChiMaster on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:32:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ABC (none / 0)

Ok Mr. Hyperbole challenged, ADBC (Any Demorat But Clinton). Are you happy or do you need me to dumb it down further for you?

Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius

by Blue Neponset on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:35:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ABC (none / 0)

Well you will excuse me but I regard the tenants of the ABC philosophy with deep suspicion.

Principally because it was the fundation of the Bush administration economic and foreign policy.

On the issues, Obama and Clinton are almost identical, so it's personal then.

by TaiChiMaster on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:42:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ABC (none / 0)

She doesn't bring anything to the ticket. Many people have pointed this out and you refuse to acknowledge their points.

Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius

by Blue Neponset on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:47:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ABC (none / 0)

You started this with your ABC stuff, now your rational is "She doesn't bring anything to the ticket".

I say your previous ABC comment kinda destroy your credibility on this.

by TaiChiMaster on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:52:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ABC (none / 0)

Did it destroy the credibility of the other people who commented in this diary making the same point?

Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius

by Blue Neponset on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:54:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ABC (none / 0)

No, no, just you.

by TaiChiMaster on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:55:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ABC (none / 0)

Is that why you spend time responding to me? Because you are afraid to address their points?

Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius

by Blue Neponset on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:00:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ABC (none / 0)

fine have the last word.
I promise I won't reply to your next post. So feel free to unload.

by TaiChiMaster on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:02:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ABC (none / 0)

Anybody But Clinton.

Clinton supporters will get on the Obama bandwagon because it is the right thing to do they don't need to be bribed with the VP slot for their candidate.

Also, Clinton brings way too much baggage to the VP slot and she isn't a team player. Obama would be crazy to pick her.

Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius

by Blue Neponset on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:07:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ABC (none / 0)

Hillary is a team player. I don't know why you state this, as her work in the Senate has proved that.

If you are referring to the UHC mandates back in the early 1990's, that was then. This is now.

by colebiancardi on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:42:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That is not exactly true (none / 0)

She carries some states that Obama does not, and she could probably bring them in even if Obama is on the top of the ticket, she also could pull in her anti Obama supporters and those still resistant to Obama.

Of course on the other hand she brings baggage too, she would cost Obama in terms of independent support, cross over republican support, and we would really have to wonder how the Administration would function with her and Bill in the White House, they are not use to taking a back seat and following someone else's agenda, they very well could cause Obama a great amount of resistance and problems.

Just some pros and cons to throw out there.

by netgui68 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:07:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ABC (2.00 / 1)

I don't want Clinton on the ticket myself, but I can think of tons of Dems who would be far worse than her. Let's not get carried away.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:52:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

ABO (none / 0)

Anybody but Obama - right back at you. Aren't you a real Democrat. What a hypocrite

by emmasaint on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:55:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ABC (none / 0)

A real Democrat who thinks Clinton is a shitty choice for VP.

Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius

by Blue Neponset on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:03:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ABC (none / 0)

oh stop it.

polls after polls show that the majority of "real" democrats like this ticket.

by colebiancardi on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:43:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A majority is not unanimous. (none / 0)

I don't particularly want Clinton on the ticket either. But then, it's not up to me.

Swish. Nothing but net.

by GFORD on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 02:10:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Give Obama some credit (none / 0)

If he is going to be our leader he needs to show that he can keep people in line and on-message. This includes the Clintons. Will it be a challenge? Perhaps. But if you believe in his leadership abilities then you should believe in his abilities to handle Hillary as his VP.

by JJE on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:00:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Choosing a VP (none / 0)

Absolutely!

by Liame on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:32:08 AM EST

She wouldn't refuse, but... (none / 0)

He's not going to ask her.

Quite frankly, he has been going by his plan all along, and she was never a part of it. If it were an option, this primary would have been over months ago, when Clinton was floating the Dream Ticket idea the first time.

I'm sure she's on a short list somewhere, but the people above her in that list aren't going to refuse.

I am not going to get into all the recent examples of why it won't happen, but stick to the core reason it won't happen: Obama has a plan, he's always had a plan, and that plan never included Hillary Clinton on the ticket. He's his own candidate, and the party won't pressure him to do anything he doesn't want to do, as well documented by the Rules & Bylaws Committee meeting this last weekend.

In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

by Dracomicron on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:33:28 AM EST

Re: She wouldn't refuse, but... (none / 0)

Was his plan to win the primary with a razor thin margin?

Plans allway need to be adjusted to reality.

by TaiChiMaster on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:36:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It was accounted for, yes. (none / 0)

He knew that he was going up against the most powerful name in politics. He knew that it could get ugly, and that it would probably be close. Though, to be sure, for it to not be close after February, he'd have had to simply stop campaigning.

After New Hampshire, he didn't allow himself to have unreasonable expectations.

In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

by Dracomicron on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:50:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Choosing a VP (none / 0)

So he will ask and, I suspect, pray to god she says no.

While you're at it, could you maybe also pray for an end to war, poverty, AIDS and famine?

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 11:53:17 AM EST

clinton as vp? (1.00 / 1)

Puh-leeze. I wish people would stop acting act like she is owed or entitled to anything. Barack has bent over backwards trying to appease her and all it does is make her bark even louder.

Its sickening. She adds nothing of value to his candidacy...zilch.

"Beauty, more than bitterness, makes the heart break." Sara Teasdale

by april34fff on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:27:48 PM EST

yes she does (none / 0)

a lot of her supporters are pissed, fairly or not. the party is split right along demographic lines. There is a real chance that they will not come back to the nominee in the necessary numbers unless Obama does a lot to reach out to them. I don't know if he can do that without at least asking Hillary to be his VP.

by JJE on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:33:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: yes she does (none / 0)

I think her supporters will think twice about voting for McCain in Nov.

Here we have a candidate being rewarded for changing the rules during the course of the game...and now she should be rewarded because she ran a shitty campaign and lost to the guy who ran a stellar campaign AND played by the rules?

The fact that HRC supporters condone her unprofessionalism is telling in and of itself.

"Beauty, more than bitterness, makes the heart break." Sara Teasdale

by april34fff on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:49:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: yes she does (none / 0)

Your argument is so counter-productive that it baffles me.

I don't think you are an Obama supoprter, Frankly I don't know waht you are.

by TaiChiMaster on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:52:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: yes she does (1.00 / 1)

Its not that complicated. She is extraordinarily divisive and does not represent Obama's message in any way...period.

"Beauty, more than bitterness, makes the heart break." Sara Teasdale

by april34fff on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:02:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: yes she does (none / 0)

Yeah Yeah,

I'm sure McCain is happy with your good work.
I do hope you get money for this.

by TaiChiMaster on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:04:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

wrong again tai (none / 0)

Fortunately, I have a strong enough income to donate generous amounts to Barack's campaign coffers and secondly, the only trolls around these parts are your fellow hrc supporters threatening to vote for McCain in the GE.

Many dems believe that Hillary would be a disaster on the ticket. I am one of them.

"Beauty, more than bitterness, makes the heart break." Sara Teasdale

by april34fff on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:24:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: wrong again tai (none / 0)

don't forget your long hair whipping in the wind!!

god, you should like a ann coulter wannabe.

by colebiancardi on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:26:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It is not about rewarding anyone (none / 0)

it is about cold political calculation. Half the party has voted for Obama. Half the party has voted for Clinton. He needs both halves in November. The best shot at getting the Hillary half would be to ask her to be VP. Perhaps they will come around regardless, but that is a gamble I would prefer he not make.

by JJE on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:58:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: clinton as vp? (none / 0)

quite frankly, I don't know why you are still on this site. I only see you bash Hillary and her supporters and your disdain for anyone over the age of 30.

I do believe you are nothing but a flame troll.

by colebiancardi on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:45:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: clinton as vp? (none / 0)

Your opinion means very little to me dear...

"Beauty, more than bitterness, makes the heart break." Sara Teasdale

by april34fff on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:49:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: clinton as vp? (none / 0)

and yours does not either, republican troll

by colebiancardi on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:58:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: clinton as vp? (none / 0)

Oh your name calling is so mature...and how are old are you again??

"Beauty, more than bitterness, makes the heart break." Sara Teasdale

by april34fff on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:07:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary Should Refuse (none / 0)

Obama will lose and she will have a great chance in 2012. Why this party keeps on picking losers is a great mystery.

by hypopg on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:51:35 PM EST

Re: Choosing a VP (none / 0)

Obama will decide what he needs in a VP. I, as oppose to many pundits here, don't know who he'll choose.

I do know this. If Hillary is his VP, the Harriet Christians of this world will spend the next 8 years decrying how Obama continually disrespects Hillary as VP. Hillaryis44 will work 24/7 to highlight every perceived slight, and they will be diaried here.

Instead of celebrating it, they would be decrying it for the next 8 years. Will Obama opt for that? Who knows?

McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.

by catilinus on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:56:37 PM EST

Re: Choosing a VP (2.00 / 1)

please - they are a small minority compared to the thousands of republicans who will slam Obama left & right.

I am not worried about that small minority. And neither should you.

If anything, Hillary in the traditional Veep mode would be the attack "dog" (please note, this is a common term to veeps, and not in anyway suggesting that means anything nasty). Hillary would fight back and say things that Obama could not say - just as Gore did in the 1990's.

by colebiancardi on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:01:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Choosing a VP (2.00 / 1)

I am prejudiced in your favor of late having read insightful posts of yours. Your committment to your candiate, and to the Democratic party, is beyond reproach.

I'm agreeing with the spirit of your response. I have to. I'm a Democrat. I will enthusiastically support Hillary as VP if she's chosen by Obama.

I don't confuse the 310 posters at Hillaryis44 at all with the vast majority of Hillary's supporters. What rational person could?

McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.

by catilinus on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:20:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Choosing a VP (none / 0)

Great point.

Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius

by Blue Neponset on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:01:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.